Is Electronic Leak
Detection really needed?
Some companies use electronics to detect holes and liners, while some of those companies use the end of a pole then to patch the Liner. We know this is not good as a diver actually going into the pool and patching it. That's why we do it the old-fashioned way, with a diver.
A great example of why not to do an electronic leak detection is if you have 10 holes or more - try patching holes with the end of a pole - Note: Some of those companies charge per patch.
Also we probably run across 20% of all pools that have 10 or more holes - you can imagine a guy with a pole saying to you - sorry you have to many holes to repair - Note: we might say that at 100 holes - yes we have numerous pools with 100+ holes every season. But generally less than 100 holes we will slow down leak substantially.
At least with say 50 holes we will cut the Leak down by say 75-90%, so you have time to shop for a new liner. It will take us say an extra 1/2 hr. - DO YOU THINK A GUY WITH A POLE CAN DO THAT - our suggestion - ask any other divers out there - WHAT % OF THERE POOLS HAVE 10 OR MORE HOLES? THERE IS A TON OF THEM.
Liner Leaks can usually be repaired by a diver. Holes or tears in vinyl liners of aboveground or inground pool or minor hairline cracks in Gunite Pools can typically be sealed in a short time underwater. Exceptions might be if you have been losing water for a long time, which could indicate numerous leak problems. For example a Vinyl Liner of an Inground or Aboveground Pool could have extensive termite damage or a Gunite Pools could have extensive structural damage, in which case we could not stop the leak completely – only that would typically slow the leak down for the remainder of the Pool Season. Light Leaks can also be repaired underwater with pool epoxy.
Need advice about your Pool leak
Do you lose more with the pump running or with the pump off? (or is there no difference?)
If an a obvious difference in water loss with pump on or off, would typically means the Leak is plumbing (pipe Leak) related (in other words the pump affects your water loss), and you would need a pressure test of the pipes, and further work to pin point that hiddden pipe Leak. If you notice no increase or decrease in water loss with pump on or off, it usually means there is no pipe Leak but a hole in liner, light or leak in structure of a gunite pool. With Piping Leaks underground, we will pinpoint them (after a pressure test) electronically 95% of the time - or we don't charge you if we can't locate (exceptions is if your piping runs under a shed or waterfall). If an inside the Pool Leak - whether a hole in liner, crack in a gunite pool, leak at light or gaskets - We will dive pool & repair those Leaks underwater with glue, patches &/or epoxy.
When to replace a Vinyl Liner?
A Liner typically gets replaced when it loses its elasticity & becomes brittle &/or 10+yrs old or more
When to replace Pool Pipes?
If getting a new Patio or if the distance from pump to pool is short & replacing them is not a real large project or if the piping is Flexible PVC which has been affected by termites in previous years.
We don't claim to be the best, or the #1 or the leading Leak Detection Co. for Nassau/Suffolk County but we offer 1 thing most Pool co's don't. It's our GUARANTEE - We find it or we are FREE.
Do u need a Long Island Pool Leak Expert?
Possibly not if your pool service will not charge you if they can't find the Leak (they guarantee to find) - just like us!
Why are 1 of the leaders Leak Detection
from Farmingdale to Farmingville
It's only what we do - THOUSANDS OF POOL LEAKS DETECTED EVERY SEASON FOR LONG ISLAND'S POOLS.
POOL PRO - 516-698-2092 631-885-5621
1st Step in the Leak Detection Process
Determine whether a diver or a pipe test is needed and what would be the most logical step in the Leak detecting process. We can then give you an accurate estimate of what we believe has to be done once some testing is done by the Pool Owner.
Need a diver or a pipe pressure test?
Have you done any tests to help determine where the leak is?
Tests that help determine where the Leak is, include:
Do you lose more with the pump running or off?
Did you let the level go below the skimmers?
Did you stop losing water when the water hit a certain level?
Did you lose water last yr. or when the pool was closed?
Once we figure out whether a pipe test or a dive is needed
we can give you an estimate for the Pool's Leak Detection:
For Diver/Underwater repairs for Nassau/Suffolk
Estimates are based on size of pool how many lights, drains etc.
Vinyl Liner pools - we check liner completely looking for holes/slices, check for light leaks, dye test main & dye test suspect gaskets at skimmers, stair gaskets, mains & returns. Once we locate the leak we typically repair it underwater.
Liners lose their elasticity over time and are much more susceptible to damage. Most liners incur damage around the edges/soft spots (cove) of the pool. Old liners are much more likely to have holes and damage that would be unrepairable due to rips, tears or actual cracking that can actually be 1 ft. or several ft. or more and can increase in size as you start to repair/patch the pool.
You might want to consider replacing the liner if 10 yrs or older.
Under certain conditions it does not make sense to get a new liner.
If your leak is behind light a new liner will not help you.
If your leak happens to be due to termites a new liner would only be a very short term solution - Termites should be treated for first.
Gunite pools - we check completely to look for cracks, dye test behind lights and bottom drains. Sometimes marble dusting / new tiles can only temporarily resolve issues that are structural in nature.
For Pressure Testing of Long Island Pool Pipes
Estimates are based on the number of pipes that have to be tested, distance from pump to pool, number of pipe leaks and what type of patio/material is around pool.
After we do a pressure test, we typically move forward with finding that hidden leak (unless for example, you plan on running a new line). IN MOST CASES IT MAKES SENSE TO GO TO THE TROUBLE TO LOCATE THAT UNDERGROUND PIPE LEAK - assuming you want to have it found by us, & repaired by your Pool Co.
But:
YOU MIGHT WANT TO GET ESTIMATES TO RE-PLUMB A POOL
If you expect a new patio/pavers soon.
If there only a minimal distance from pump to pool.
If most of a re-pipe can be done around the patio under dirt.
Your piping is old, say 20 or even 30 yrs old and its black poly pipe (lawn sprinkler type) where there is a greater likely hood that more than 1 fitting is bad.
Your piping is flex PVC and you have had termites causing damage before.
If you want to move forward with a pressure test, then there is probably more you will need. A pressure test will simply tell us which line is bad or has a Leak. Once the bad line is found (skimmer or return line etc.) we can move forward to pinpoint it's underground location. Once the location is found, it can be dug up (by others, pool co's or pool owner) and repaired.
Sometimes if its determined what line is bad (after a pressure test) it might be possible just to abandon (shut off) that line and not repair it,
for example: If there are multiple sets of return lines or independently (separately run) skimmer lines - 1 of the lines can be shut down.
We will Provide an accurate & honest assessment regarding the origin of your pool leak and whether you even would need us for a Leak Detection or might you be better off with replacements (liner or pipes)
WHAT POOL PRO DOES:
Underwater Inspection by a diver to find and fix vinyl liner Pool Leaks
Electronically Pinpoint Pool Pipe Leaks typically within 2 ft.
Dye Test Main Drain Leaks and plug those that Leak
Test Gunite Pool Cracks for Leaks & Repair minor cracks underwater with epoxy
Test Light Conduit Leaks & Repair leaks underwater with pool putty epoxy
Check suspicious areas at liner gaskets at stairs, skimmer, mains & and seal those Leaks
Dye Test suspected Leaks at Hydrostatic valves, returns & other suspect areas
Scuba Dive Replace Swimming Pool Main Drain with new Anti-Vortex Covers
We won't sell you a new replacement vinyl Liner, we only inspect Liners and repair them
Need a Pro for your Nassau/Suffolk County Pool Leak Detection - GUARANTEED to locate the problem
Inside the Pool Leaks
Leaks inside a Pool can almost always be repaired underwater. Whether it is in a Vinyl Liner Pool, Gunite or Fiberglass Pool, we typically can stop the Leaks in the pool. Holes or tears in liners or minor cracks in Gunite or Fiberglass Pools can typically be repaired by a scuba diver in short time. We typically prefer a scuba dive inspection as compared to the Anderson Electronic Leak Trac (which we do have). Exceptions might be if you have noticed you have lost water for a long time, which could indicate more than 1 leak problem. For example, Vinyl Liner could have extensive termite damage or a Gunite Pools could have extensive structural damage, in which case we can't offer any leak free warranty – only that we would typically slow down the leak for the remainder of the Pool Season. Also light Leaks at the conduit/niche or cracks in the housing if it is a plastic can be repaired with underwater epoxy. We would need a pool clean, clear & typically filled up, so we can analyze the whole pool or diagnose all the problems of the pool.
Liner Pool Leaks (in-ground & above-ground pools) or holes, rips, punctures, pinholes can be repaired with patches underwater & in many cases with the same Liner pattern, however, to fading or discoloration there isn’t always a perfect match. Whether it is a puncture, tear, holes or pinholes due to insect or termite damage we can typically fix it. Even though we do have the electronic leak trac we perform most of our liner underwater inspections the by scuba diving. We also feel we can do a much more through job patching liners - some pool companies patch liners with a long pole - as far as we are concerned is there is no better way to patch a pool then to be within a few inches of the hole. We also can dye test gaskets at the stairs, returns or skimmer faceplates or any other areas that look suspect. If your Pool has been Leaking a long time that could indicate there is extensive damage – every year we run across several pools that have 100 holes or more. In those cases we hopefully can help slow down the leak for the season. At Pool Pro of Long Island we don’t sell or install new pool liners – it is not in our interest to recommend a new pool liner, but only to repair it. Additionally, rarely do Liner seams fail & therefore it is quite rare for your liner to be replaced (by the company that suppl;ied the liner) for any sort of warranty issue.
Need a new liner or should you have your liner repaired?
We don't replace liners we just repair them. In many cases people replace their liner within 10 years. In many cases a new liner is not necessary. However, toward the end of a liners life the liner uses it elasticity. When the liner does not stretch anymore, not only can it be more susceptible to ripping, it can actually crack which can be up to a ft. or two or even more. Sometimes due to erosion and weakness/brittleness an old liner might be very difficult to repair and could start to rip even more when attempting a liner repair.
Where are the Liner Leaks typically?
Typically, a liner Leak occurs around the edges of the pool. Usually there is a soft spot cove at the area where the sidewall meets the bottom of the pool. In many cases this area develops holes due to brushing or robot use or when a vacuum is done on your pool.
When getting estimates for Liner repair
Verify they guarantee to find the Leak. Do they sell new Liners? Can they test the light and the main drain? Can they repair a typical light Leak (at the conduit)? Can they check gaskets/screws at the steps and repair if needed. Do they charge per patch or is it a flat rate for say 10 patches. If they charge per patch what would be the charge for 5-20 patches. In many cases it is not unusual where a pool needs 5+ patches. Some Pools we do have as many as 20/30/40 holes.
Gunite Pool Leaks Most typically these leaks are at the area where the skimmer connects to the pool or in some cases where the return pipes (or Jets) come into the Pool. Also, we sometimes see Leaks at the light niche or conduit. We can repair these Leaks as well as small structural hairline cracks underwater with Pool Putty/Epoxy. If however, there are large structural cracks, those typically would require a more permanent repair probably necessitating draining the water from the Pool. These structural probably require more then just marble dusting.
Pool Plumbing Pipe Leaks / Underground Pipes
At Pool Pro of Long Island we only do Pool Leaks. We have become leak experts at finding concealed air & water leaks & therefore we can afford to charge flat fees & not hourly charges. It is never in our interest to drag out our leak detection (with respect to hours) nor is it ever in our interest to suggest a re-piping. Why? because we don’t re-pipe Pools, we do however recommend that on some occasion's pools be re-piped.
We ask our customers to do some analysis with respect to the water loss (to help save money), to help us diagnose or analyze whether the Leak is in the pipes or inside the pool. We would like to know if the water loss is more with the pump running or more with pump off. This helps determine whether we should focus on the inside of the pool or outside the pool to look for the leak problem.
Most of the time it makes sense to Pinpoint underground Pipe Leaks & have it repaired.
However, It might make more sense re-pipe your Pool under the following conditions:
1) Older pipes – say 20+ years especially if these pipes are only a short distance from the equipment to the Pool.
2) Flex PVC piping which you already know was already affected by insect/termite damage.
3) If most of the piping was under just dirt or sand, making replacement relatively easy as compared to being under a concrete patio for example. Or if you are replacing the patio soon. Even if there is no leak if you are replacing your patio, you might want to consider pressure testing pipes to verify they are leak free (if not replacing the pipes).
4) If you have suspected a leak for years in some cases that might indicate that there are multiple pipe leak issues & it might be appropriate to re-pipe.
Pool Pipe Leaks can be caused by termites, failure at Joints or couplings, old age, improper chemical usage (chlorine dropped in skimmer baskets for example), manufacturing defect or damage to an extensive freeze &/or improper winterization.
Our Leak Detection for the pool piping starts with a pressure test of the Plumbing Pipes with compressed air & verify (with a gauge) they don't loose much pressure in a reasonable amount of time. Once we determine what pipe or pipes Leak are leaking (the skimmers, return jets, Polaris, main drain or solar lines underground that led to the roof) by pressurizing with air &/or water & monitoring with a gauge) we work towards accurately pinpointing the Leak(s). We have some of the best Leak Detection Equipment – from Helium Detectors to Ultrasonic/Sound/Listening Microphones to increase are accuracy in Leaks we find (typically 1-2 feet) & try to make the excavation as non-invasive as possible.
Leak Detection Tests that a Nassau County owner can do
As the Pool owner you can troubleshoot to us help diagnose or steer us in the right direction for the Leak Detection. We want to know whether you are losing more water with the pump on or off. Or is the water loss the same on/off. This helps determine whether the Leak is in the pipes or the inside or the pool. This helps determine whether a scuba dive or a pressure test is needed. Another test you can do is to see if the water level goes below the skimmers. Either you can shut off the skimmer valve & operate just of the main, or if no main just shut the pool pump completely. Or you can plug your pipes with winterizing plugs or Gizmos (remember to shut off the pump completely for the duration of the test).
Why use Pool Pro for Leak Detection
1) We are one of a few Long Island companies that only do Pool Leaks. Some companies advertise Leak Detection but in many cases are more interested in offering a New Liner or a complete pipe replacement. We don’t re-pipe, we don’t replace or sell Vinyl Liners, nor do we re-finish gunite pools. We are interested in diving your pool & making underwater repairs (to save the liner) or we can pinpoint your underground pipe Leaks (for others to repair). If we can’t find the leak we won’t charge you, no matter how long we spend looking for the Leak.
2) We charge flat fees not hourly. As Leak experts we can afford to charge flat rates – it is not to our advantage to run out the clock & build up your bill. Some other companies charge hourly to look for pipe Leaks - Is it in their interest to find it quickly?
3) We get at least a few pools every year we don’t get paid for & it gets quite frustrating for us, but it is part of our guarantee, that is - if we don't find the Leak we don't charge.
From Farmingdale to Farmingville, N.Y.
POOL PRO - 516-698-2092 631-885-5621